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Joy
Guest
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 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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<nigel@sysadmininc.com> wrote in message
news:o9iu85-97c.ln1@news.sysadmininc.com...
| Quote: | Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
However, whenever an Area Governor makes an official visit to a club,
there
is a form that must be filled out, indicating who is going to do what in
the
near future. All of these things are geared toward the DCP, rather than
toward the needs of the members.
It's funny to think that if a club doesn't get 4 CCs in a year, they're
not meetings it responsibilities to its members. Sometimes clubs havr
30-40+ members, you'd not be able to complete a CC if you waited your
turn to speak at a regular interval.
There's also the big assumption that a lot of people will complete their
CC by June 30th. This assumes it takes about a year to complete and
everyone started on 1st July. There are only 5 events that are based on
the Toastmasters year. New officers, getting officer lists to WHQ, dues
renewals periods and officer training. DCP program.
If WHQ is concerned about the quality of meetings, they should be more
concerned about the total number of manual speeches given rather than
how many people actually complete manuals.
I've said this before, after my ACB I got 4 manuals and have been
working out of all four so my ACS and ACG had a potential to come very
close to either. That's 20 speeches, but I could have given 16 without
finishing any of the 4 manuals. WHQ should also reward a low turnover
rather than club growth. A club of 30 people with low turnover is not
necessarily going to benefit from 8 new members each year. Sure, it's
nice to have fresh blood and people will come and go. I guess they make
a fair amount on the $20 for new member packets. Member retention and
longevity need more weight than new members.
Maybe it's time WHQ took a look at the DCP structure and put some
thought into that rather than messing around with district leadership
like they are at the moment.
--
Nigel Reed ACS, oCL (It's really an ATM-S in an ideal world) + LDREXC
2 Speeches + 1 Sponsorship needed for DTM. 1 Speech for next CC
District 50 Public Relations Officer http://www.toastmastersd50.org
http://www.toastytips.com - Tips of Toastmasters (submissions welcome)
http://toastmasters.sysadmininc.com - Toastmasters Club Mapping Project
Unofficial Area Motto: "I'm sure there's a speech in that somewhere"
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I agree wholeheartedly!
Joy |
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Rick
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:40 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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nigel@sysadmininc.com wrote:
| Quote: | If 26 other people chip in $2 every 6 months, we could buy Rod and Joy a
membership each 
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How would the clubs or Rod benefit from him joining? Before I changed
companies, I visited two clubs regularly. When the clubs needed help, I
could fill in on the schedule. When they had plenty of people, you just
visit and maybe get called on for table topics. If they have a special
project, he is one more person they can ask for help. Paying for a
membership basically gets an extra copy of Toastmaster magazine and the
chance to sever as officer in two clubs.
Rick Clements, DTM
VPM Daylighters |
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Rick
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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Joy wrote:
[Some well written comments on Toastmasters modules deleted.]
| Quote: | Yes, I have done a few of those. It always amazes me how an organization
that is supposed to promote good public speaking can produce such dry,
bland, boring modules. It is harder to make one of those interesting than
it is to come up with an original speech.
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On top of being boring, few offer much original material. For example,
if you have been attending those training sessions that you are finding
repetitious, you would have heard the material in the finding new
members module.
The modules did help come up with a good speech. I read though the
module on resolving conflict. It talked about the reasons for conflict.
One reason seamed to be lacking from their reasons for conflict.
That is people are different. I took examples about people being
different from Meyers-Briggs and for courses about dealing with
different cultures.
One example was at a training session we were told we should phrase our
feedback as "I felt" and never "I thought". One of the Meyers-Briggs
scales rank people from thinking to feeling. It's a basic difference on
how people look at things. It also affects if you will naturally use
thinking or feeling.
My point to avoid conflict many times we need to understand people react
differently to the same situation. They are doing it because that's
what's natural to them and not to annoy you.
It inspired a good speech, but I didn't use any material from the module.
Rick Clements, DTM
FPM Daylighters |
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Mark Perew
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
| Quote: | However, whenever an Area Governor makes an official visit to a club, there
is a form that must be filled out, indicating who is going to do what in the
near future. All of these things are geared toward the DCP, rather than
toward the needs of the members.
|
I haven't seen the form in a couple of years, but as I recall it wasn't
tailored directly to the DCP. It seemed to me to be more a way of
confirming that people were giving manual speeches, serving in officer
roles, recruiting new members, etc. Yes, those are DCP goals, but they are
first the things that successful, thriving clubs do.
--
Mark Perew <perew@squeep.com>
To the world you may be just one person,
but to one person you may be the world. (Source Unknown)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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Mark Perew
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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nigel@sysadmininc.com wrote:
| Quote: | It's funny to think that if a club doesn't get 4 CCs in a year, they're
not meetings it responsibilities to its members. Sometimes clubs havr
30-40+ members, you'd not be able to complete a CC if you waited your
turn to speak at a regular interval.
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A club that has had 30-40 members for a while will have members "in the
pipeline" who are at various stages of working through the C&L Manual. I
can't imagine why 2 or 4 of them couldn't manage to complete the small
number of projects needed to earn their CC.
A club that has suddenly gone from 10 to 40 members is a different problem,
however.
--
Mark Perew <perew@squeep.com>
To the world you may be just one person,
but to one person you may be the world. (Source Unknown)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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"Mark Perew" <perew@bokbok.squeep.com> wrote in message
news:47bd01ed$0$26008$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
| Quote: | Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
However, whenever an Area Governor makes an official visit to a club,
there
is a form that must be filled out, indicating who is going to do what in
the
near future. All of these things are geared toward the DCP, rather than
toward the needs of the members.
I haven't seen the form in a couple of years, but as I recall it wasn't
tailored directly to the DCP. It seemed to me to be more a way of
confirming that people were giving manual speeches, serving in officer
roles, recruiting new members, etc. Yes, those are DCP goals, but they
are
first the things that successful, thriving clubs do.
--
Mark Perew <perew@squeep.com
To the world you may be just one person,
but to one person you may be the world. (Source Unknown)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
|
Unless it has been changed in the last year or so, the form asks for names
of those who plan to get a CC by the end of June and those who plan to get
an advanced award or a CL or AL by the end of June. That is definitely
aimed at the DCP.
I am currently working on my 17th CTM/CC, mainly so I can give one of my
clubs credit for it. After that many, I couldn't care less if I ever get
another certificate. I would still give manual speeches, but I wouldn't
bother to apply for the awards if it weren't for the plan. Therefore, the
plan is not serving my needs. Those are served by allowing me to give
speeches and perform other roles at meetings, to compete in the contests,
and to mentor new members or advise long-term members when asked.
--
Joy Gaylord, ATM-S, CL
Simi Valley Toastmasters (Dist. 33)
The Supper Club (Dist. 33)
Storytelling & Performing Arts Toastmasters (Dist. 52)
Southern California |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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<nigel@sysadmininc.com> wrote in message
news:hbiu85-97c.ln1@news.sysadmininc.com...
| Quote: | Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
I could probably afford the dues, which are relatively cheap here in the
US,
but both the clubs I'm dropping have monthly meetings at restaurants,
where
we're expected to buy a meal. That increases the cost considerably.
If 26 other people chip in $2 every 6 months, we could buy Rod and Joy a
membership each :D
Thanks for the thought  ) |
The situation isn't that extreme, but I really wish WHQ would make TMI truly
international in many ways. |
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Rod Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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<nigel@sysadmininc.com> wrote in message
news:o9iu85-97c.ln1@news.sysadmininc.com...
| Quote: | Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
However, whenever an Area Governor makes an official visit to a club,
there
is a form that must be filled out, indicating who is going to do what in
the
near future. All of these things are geared toward the DCP, rather than
toward the needs of the members.
It's funny to think that if a club doesn't get 4 CCs in a year, they're
not meetings it responsibilities to its members. Sometimes clubs havr
30-40+ members, you'd not be able to complete a CC if you waited your
turn to speak at a regular interval.
There's also the big assumption that a lot of people will complete their
CC by June 30th. This assumes it takes about a year to complete and
everyone started on 1st July. There are only 5 events that are based on
the Toastmasters year. New officers, getting officer lists to WHQ, dues
renewals periods and officer training. DCP program.
If WHQ is concerned about the quality of meetings, they should be more
concerned about the total number of manual speeches given rather than
how many people actually complete manuals.
|
It's also difficult for clubs when District officers, with their own agendas
dominating members' needs, have cajoled and bullied to squeeze every
possible CC out before 30 june. This puts many clubs back to an almost zero
base.
Further, in this District, as far as I'm aware, we have only one club that
meets weekly. The vast majority meet twice a monthh, with a few monthly
clubs scattered here and there. Meeting twice a month gives slightly less
than half the speaking opportunities of clubs that meet weekly.
It would seem far mor equitable to assess educational performance on CCs (or
manual speeches) related to the number of meetings.
--
Rod Taylor (rodt iafrica - don't forget the @ and the dotcom)
Transformers Toastmasters Club
District 74, Southern Africa |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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Mark Perew <perew@bokbok.squeep.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I haven't seen the form in a couple of years, but as I recall it wasn't
tailored directly to the DCP. It seemed to me to be more a way of
confirming that people were giving manual speeches, serving in officer
roles, recruiting new members, etc. Yes, those are DCP goals, but they are
first the things that successful, thriving clubs do.
|
There's one here.
http://www.d63toastmasters.com/forms/AreaClubVisit.pdf
--
Nigel Reed ACS, oCL (It's really an ATM-S in an ideal world) + LDREXC
2 Speeches + 1 Sponsorship needed for DTM. 1 Speech for next CC
District 50 Public Relations Officer http://www.toastmastersd50.org
http://www.toastytips.com - Tips of Toastmasters (submissions welcome)
http://toastmasters.sysadmininc.com - Toastmasters Club Mapping Project
Unofficial Area Motto: "I'm sure there's a speech in that somewhere" |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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"Rod Taylor" <seemysignature@nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:1203594082.666379@svr04.isisp.net...
| Quote: | nigel@sysadmininc.com> wrote in message
news:hbiu85-97c.ln1@news.sysadmininc.com...
Joy <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
I could probably afford the dues, which are relatively cheap here in the
US,
but both the clubs I'm dropping have monthly meetings at restaurants,
where
we're expected to buy a meal. That increases the cost considerably.
If 26 other people chip in $2 every 6 months, we could buy Rod and Joy a
membership each :D
Thanks for the thought )
The situation isn't that extreme, but I really wish WHQ would make TMI
truly international in many ways.
|
I agree. They do seem to be working on it, by reorganizing and having more
Regions outside of North America. There is still a long way to go, and cost
is definitely part of the problem.
Joy |
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Joy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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<nigel@sysadmininc.com> wrote in message
news:eul095-fjm.ln1@news.sysadmininc.com...
| Quote: | Mark Perew <perew@bokbok.squeep.com> wrote:
I haven't seen the form in a couple of years, but as I recall it wasn't
tailored directly to the DCP. It seemed to me to be more a way of
confirming that people were giving manual speeches, serving in officer
roles, recruiting new members, etc. Yes, those are DCP goals, but they
are
first the things that successful, thriving clubs do.
There's one here.
http://www.d63toastmasters.com/forms/AreaClubVisit.pdf
--
Nigel Reed ACS, oCL (It's really an ATM-S in an ideal world) + LDREXC
2 Speeches + 1 Sponsorship needed for DTM. 1 Speech for next CC
District 50 Public Relations Officer http://www.toastmastersd50.org
http://www.toastytips.com - Tips of Toastmasters (submissions welcome)
http://toastmasters.sysadmininc.com - Toastmasters Club Mapping Project
Unofficial Area Motto: "I'm sure there's a speech in that somewhere"
|
Yup. The top half of the form is devoted exclusively to the DCP.
Joy |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:04:07 +0200, while chained to a desk
in the scriptorium "Rod Taylor" <seemysignature@nospam.ever>
wrote:
| Quote: | $It's also difficult for clubs when District officers, with their own agendas
$dominating members' needs, have cajoled and bullied to squeeze every
$possible CC out before 30 june. This puts many clubs back to an almost zero
$base.
$
$Further, in this District, as far as I'm aware, we have only one club that
$meets weekly. The vast majority meet twice a monthh, with a few monthly
$clubs scattered here and there. Meeting twice a month gives slightly less
$than half the speaking opportunities of clubs that meet weekly.
$
$It would seem far mor equitable to assess educational performance on CCs (or
$manual speeches) related to the number of meetings.
|
As I've said before, the issue I have with the current DCP
is that it is a "one size fits all" program. Not all clubs
are the same.
For all its flaws, the old DCP the current DCP replaced did
allow a club to tailor the objectives to meet its own needs
and circumstances. For example, a weak club could focus its
efforts on membership building, get credit for that, and not
worry as much about the number of CTMs/CCs. A larger
membership club with a lot of members at various stages of
the CTM/CC could focus its efforts on educational
accomplishments and membership retention, and worry less
about membership building.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Member
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:09:14 -0800, while chained to a desk
in the scriptorium "Joy" <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
| Quote: | $I could probably afford the dues, which are relatively cheap here in the US,
$but both the clubs I'm dropping have monthly meetings at restaurants, where
$we're expected to buy a meal. That increases the cost considerably.
|
Yes, that can get expensive.
At one point, I belonged to a breakfast club and there was a
charge for the meal. That added up. For a typical year,
the total cost if I attended all meetings worked out to
about $500 per year.
The one benefit we did have was this. Because the cost of
renting the meeting place was included in the meal cost, we
set up the club finances so part of the cost of the meal was
"picked up by the club" through the semi annuals. That is,
the venue charged something like $12 per meal, the member
paid $8 for the meal and the club paid $4. Because the semi
annuals were tax deductible and directly paid meal costs
weren't, members indirectly got a small tax write off for
breakfast.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Member
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:00 -0800, while chained to a desk
in the scriptorium "Joy" <toastie@real-me.net> wrote:
| Quote: | $"John Fleming, DTM" <nospam@sprynet.com> wrote in message
$news:ol1nr3po7fotq3f9m7b705ds83ttcd87t8@4ax.com...
$> Speaking of Successful Club/Leadership Excellence/Better
$> Speaker modules, last week I ran into someone I met through
$> Toastmasters years ago. She'd completed her DTM and about a
$> year or two later had dropped out.
$
$> She was saying one of the things that did Toastmasters in
$> for her was these modules. She belonged to a club that did
$> one every other week--alternating educationals with business
$> meetings. With roughly twenty modules, you hear them all at
$> least once a year. On top of that, many members use them as
$> a prepackaged speech, making no effort to personalize them
$> or add to the material either through personal study of the
$> topic or through personal experience.
$
$> Result is, after a while educationals from these series
$> start resembling month old leftovers greeting you by name
$> and showing off their new fur coats when you open the
$> fridge.
$
$Yes, I have done a few of those. It always amazes me how an organization
$that is supposed to promote good public speaking can produce such dry,
$bland, boring modules. It is harder to make one of those interesting than
$it is to come up with an original speech.
|
Ain't that the truth.
The only way to get around that is to use the module as a
general guide to the material to be covered, and write your
own speech.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Member
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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John Fleming, DTM
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: Re: TLI is over and done! |
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:30:08 GMT, while chained to a desk in
the scriptorium nigel@sysadmininc.com wrote:
| Quote: | $John Fleming, DTM <nospam@sprynet.com> wrote:
$> On top of that, the sessions are usually geared towards
$> officers who are just learning the position. And if you
$> have done the position several times, and done it well, it's
$> hard to sit through a session that you could be teaching.
$
$I'm sure, much to the chagrin of the other people, myself and another
$member had a discussion across the room about the CL manual (which I
$officially declared dead if I become International President!), the 2
$speech outside the club per manual, the one speech per day per club rule
$and a couple of other things. That really helped the time fly.
|
I have absolutely no intention of *ever* doing the new CL
manual.
It doesn't meet my needs, and doesn't spark any interest.
--
John Fleming, DTM
Edmonton, Canada
Attitude Boosters Toastmasters (7022-42) - Member
Chamber Toastmasters (5594 - 42) - Member
A scientist can discover a new star but he
cannot make one. He would have to ask an
engineer to do it for him.
- Gordon L. Glegg |
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